Winning Set Details

2013 Best World Set

99970 Points

POLDAN's Victorian Florins

By POLDAN

Unto the Nation : By the grace of God From Victoria Queen of Great Britain Britain's First Decimal Coin – THE ONE FLORIN born 1848 died 1967, a child before it’s time The silver florin was Britain's first decimal coin and as such in very conservative times faced an immediate challenge in securing it’s place in the nation’s affections. Following and influenced by the French Revolution, a European movement towards decimalisation developed. During the early part of Victoria's reign, the decimal question became an important social and political subject. In 1824 Lord Wrottesley's proposal for decimal currency was rejected by Parliament, and there were subsequently other reports and commissions in 1853, 1857, and 1918. In 1847 a motion was introduced in Parliament calling for the introduction of a decimal currency and the striking of coins of one-tenth and one-hundredth of a pound. The motion was subsequently withdrawn on the understanding that a one-tenth pound coin would be produced to test public opinion. Many trial pattern pieces were produced, and there was much debate about what new denominations should be introduced. There was considerable discussion about what the coin should be called, with centum, decade, and dime being among the suggestions, before florin was eventually settled upon, partly because of its connection with old English coinage, and partly because other European countries also had coins of approximately the same size and weight called florins. A gold florin was first issued during the reign of Edward III in 1344 at a value of six shillings. The name derives from Italian, either fiorino (little flower) or Firenze (Florence), and was inspired by similar continental coins. A proof pattern coin was initially struck in limited numbers in 1848 with varying designs and initially differing names such as centum as above for the denomination. Eventually, it was decided that a new coin, to be called the florin, could be easily introduced. It fitted easily into the existing monetary system, being worth two shillings (2/-), or one tenth of a pound. It was produced in quantity for general circulation the next year 1849, but was unpopular at first because the wording "DEI GRATIA" or its abbreviation "D.G." had been omitted from the design. The obverse, designed by William Wyon, of the Godless florin has the inscription VICTORIA REGINA 1849, with Victoria's crowned bust draped left. The reverse was designed by William Dyce and is inscribed ONE FLORIN ONE TENTH OF A POUND - it depicts four crowned shields in the shape of a cross with a rose in the centre of the cross. The shield pointing north has three lions on it the shield pointing east has a single lion on it, south has three lions on it and west has a harp on it. Dividing the shields are a rose to the top left corner, a thistle in the top right corner, a shamrock in the bottom left corner and a rose in the bottom right corner The coin, with a diameter 28 mm and weighing 11.3gm, was also unusual in another respect - the queen, Victoria, was portrayed wearing a crown for the first time since the reign of Charles II. The "godless florin" may have also been minted in 1850 and 1851 with the date 1849. It seems to be human nature to resist change, new coins and money in particular are always criticised when they first appear. I suppose most people prefer to be familiar with the money in their pockets. The translation from Latin means "by the grace of God", and the new coin was criticised heavily for being "Godless and graceless", and is still known to this day as the "Godless" florin. In 1851, the florin was redesigned in a most unusual way. The diameter was increased to 30 millimetres, and all the lettering on the coin was in Gothic script, resulting in it being known as the Gothic florin. The date was rendered in Roman numerals. The inscription on the obverse read (e.g.) victoria d g britt reg f d mdcccli ( F D – Fidei Defensor, defender of faith), while the reverse read one florin one tenth of a pound. The Gothic Florin was produced each year until 1887 (mdccclxxxvii). So this new design was introduced, and in 1852 the beautiful "gothic" design, similar to that on the crown of 1847, was introduced into circulation, and it continued in production, with a few minor changes, until Victoria's Golden Jubilee year, 1887.The furore over the "godless" design almost sunk the florin but the new gothic design rescued and revived its chances of success. In the meantime production of the halfcrown ceased to allow the new coin to become established. This was a blatant manipulation of the currency as the halfcrown was a very popular coin but after 1850 no further circulation coins were minted until 1874. The halfcrown mintages were never huge but those that remained in circulation saw much more circulation than might have otherwise been the case with the consequence that prices for all the early coins in mint condition are very high. The Gothic series, which continued until 1887, is interestingly complex, with various numbers of arcs between the legend and the rim, and no less than 3 different heads, as well as die numbers on coins dated between 1863 and 1879. These die numbers are to be found on the obverse under the Queen's bust just to the right of her brooch, except for some dies of 1877 where it is to the left. Rare dates include the following: 1854, 1862 and 1863 .There are scarce varieties of the 1852 and 1859 coins these having no stop after the date, and rare versions of 1865 and 1866 have a colon after the date. Subsequent dates in the 1870’s have different obverse features in particular the number of arcs to the perimeter. There are differences between different catalogues regarding the relative rarities of the varieties of 1877 and 1879 gothic florins. Spink mentions 38 arcs, another 39. The third type of Florin is the Jubilee Head Type, it was struck from 1887 to 1892. The Florin was completely redesigned for Victoria's Golden Jubilee. Victoria's portrait depicted her as being much older and wearing her new much smaller crown. (this new portrait was ridiculed at the time as it was said it made her look like a penguin). The various flora were removed from the reverse and replaced by sceptres between the shields and a Garter Star in the centre The portrait was designed by Sir Joseph Edgar Boehm . The obverse inscription reads "VICTORIA DEI GRATIA". The reverse was designed and engraved by Leonard Charles Wyon - it keeps the four shields but the national plants divided them have been replaced by sceptres, the reverse inscription reads "BRITT: REG: FID: DEF:" followed by the date (no longer in Roman numerals). The Jubilee Florin was made of .925 silver the diameter was again altered to 29.5 millimetres and it weighed approximately 11.3 grams. All the inscriptions were in Latin letters and Arabic numerals with no indication of the value. The fourth type of florin was the Old or Widow Head Type, it was struck from 1893 to 1901. The coin was again a complete re-design the portrait was by Sir Thomas Brock it depicted Victoria as being much older and wearing a mourning Veil, the obverse inscription reads "VICTORIA DEI GRA BRITT REGINA FID DEF IND IMP". The reverse design was by Edward Poyter and both sides were engraved by George William de Saulles. The reverse shows three shields two at the top and one just beneath them, there is also a crown placed centrally above the shields. On the top left shield are three lions, the right shield has a lion on it and the bottom shield has a harp on it. In between the top shields is a rose, to the left of the bottom shield is a thistle and to the right of the bottom shield is a shamrock. The shields are circled by a garter, the inscription on the garter reads "HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE" it is in French and it is the motto of the order of the garter and loosely translated it means "Shamed be he who thinks evil ". The inscription round the outside of the coin reads "ONE FLORIN TWO SHILLINGS" with the date at the bottom of the coin. The diameter was reduced again, to 28.5 millimetres. It is interesting to note the changing denomination or value mark on florins. On the first florin design, the "Godless", the value is shown as "One Florin - One Tenth of a Pound" indicating clearly its decimal connection. This description continued on the gothic design until 1887. By 1887 when the Jubilee design was introduced, the mark of value was entirely removed, presumably the florin had become such a familiar coin, that it was not considered necessary to remind people of its value. In 1893, with the introduction of the "Old Head" design, the value mark re-appeared, but this time reading "One Florin - Two Shillings", and this was continued during the reign of Edward VII, even though a brand new reverse design had been introduced, an attractive Standing Britannia design. In 1911, on the new coins of George V, the value "One Florin" remains, but the wording "Two Shillings" disappears. With the introduction of new designs for George VI in 1937, the wording "Two Shillings" re-appears, but the words "One Florin" were removed. This continued, not only during the minor design changes of 1949, but right through the introduction of new designs for Elizabeth II, until the very last florins of 1967, the last circulation coin, and 1970, the date of the last non-circulating proof coin After 1967 a "10 new pence" coin was issued, identical in size and weight to the old florin or two shilling piece. In this way, the florin did indeed help to pave the way for Britain's decimalisation, although it did take 122 years! As regards being a collectible item, the florin - besides being such a very attractive coin – had low mintages overall as well as the genuinely rare dates , but the denomination and the design itself themselves lead to a scarcity of high grade coins before their time. A rather flat coin with a great abundance of detail was handy, circulated widely but the detail wore off quickly- the details of the dress and the hair being the first to wear off on the obverse. Unlike many Victorian shillings and sixpences, the date on the florins is often very clear even when the coin itself is a wreck, which tempts many buyers. My collection here is complete as far as dates are concerned. However I am still looking, as all serious collectors do, at improving the quality further. When I received a World Set Award ( 2nd place ) for my florin collection in 2010 this was really thrilling and is hereby somewhat belatedly in writing very gratefully acknowledged. My points value then was 62230.However there were then some gaps which after a struggle were filled not many months ago with choice acquisitions of the 1862 and 1863 coins which are far lovelier in the hand than the photos suggest. These two coins are just so rare in mint state! I had being hoping to hit the 100,000 points mark this year but fall just short at 99,970 – ah well, there is always next year! I have taken on board the NGC Judges’ comments which seem to accompany many winning sets inasmuch as there is a noticeable lack of illustrations and text. I do however have some way to go with the text as I have been sidetracked into collecting Victorian sixpences and halfcrowns where my collections are both 80% or more complete. The quest for all these lovely coins which are well over 100 years old has been long and challenging but fascinating and absorbing. I have to ask if the same can be said about the collections of modern ( mainly gold ) coins where the collectors points far outstrip any numismatic or any other information provided. Indeed I feel that coins dated no older than 1980 fall more into a commercial profit-driven category than being true numismatic items of historic interest. It would indeed be fascinating if I had the time available to see just how many points in the Registry are for coins more than say 100 years old. Having had that little rant, I must however say that any form of collecting coins must be good for the long term future of the hobby, as long as it is treated as that. Sadly nowadays you need to have deep pockets to be able to afford many older MS coins so the recent NGC initiative to focus on sets where these are excluded is to be applauded. I have summarised the coin mintages below from which it can readily be seen that these are quite small compared to modern mintages. Given that many coins have been melted down over the years for their silver content it is perhaps surprising that mint state specimens are not valued more highly. Date Mintage 1849 413,830 1852 1,014,552 1853 3,919,950 1854 550,413 1855 831,017 1856 2,201,760 1857 1,671,120 1858 2,239,380 1859 2,568,060 1860 1,475,100 1862 594,000 1863 938,520 1864 1,861,200 1865 1,580,044 1866 914,760 1867 423,720 1868 896,940 1869 297,000 1870 1,080,648 1871 3,425,605 1872 7,199,690 1873 5,921,839 1874 1,642,630 1875 1,117,030 1876 580,034 1877 682,292 1878 1,786,680 1879 1,512,247 1880 2,167,170 1881 2,570,337 1883 3,555,667 1884 1,447,379 1885 1,758,210 1886 591,773 1887 1,776,903 1888 1,541,540 1889 2,973,561 1890 1,684,737 1891 836,438 1892 283,401 1893 1,666,103 1894 1,952,842 1895 2,182,968 1896 2,944,416 1897 1,699,921 1898 3,061,343 1899 3,966,953 1900 5,528,630 1901 2,648,870 Read more...

POLDAN's Victorian Florins

By POLDAN

Owner Comments:

Gallery

NGC Expert Comments:

The florin, or two-shilling piece, was introduced in 1849 as Britain’s first hesitant step toward a decimal coinage, since it was valued at one-tenth of a pound. This dazzling collection brings together the complete series of florins from the reign of Victoria through 1901. All but the very rarest issues are Mint State, and some of the outstanding pieces include the rare dates of 1854 (NGC VF 20), 1862 (MS 65) and 1863 (MS 64). Other highlights include 1868 (MS 64), the rare 1877 without die number (MS 62) and 1883 (MS 66).

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2013 Best World Set

POLDAN&#39;s Victorian Florins

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POLDAN's Victorian Florins